Re: non-traditional males (NOT)

Robert Weverka (
Tue, 24 Mar 1998 18:17:00 +0000

marie De Santis wrote:
> Tim Flinders writes that he looks to the day that teaching will release
> boys from boy stereotypes so that " 'becoming a man' will no longer
> requires that we set aside so much of our humanity".

Thank you Tim.

> Tim, becoming a man does not require you set aside your humanity. It
> heaps reward and profit on boys for setting aside their humanity, a
> reward and profit that boys and men can CHOOSE to give up any time they
> want.

Perhaps you can clarify these rewards heaped on men. The higher incarceration
rate? The much higher suicide rate? Some of us would not call these rewards.

> Boys graduating from high school right away make more money than girls
> graduating from college.. Boys can give up this money any time they
> want. Girls, however, are not free to take this collosal money
> difference from the boys.

I've posted refutation of this before, including NCES sources on earnings:

In the remainder, Marie De Santis writes of a number of other issues as well.
I maintain that boys are not the evil monsters she would have us believe and I
would join with Tim in calling for more efforts to lower the number of boys
who drop out of school. I would that we not put so many more boys on behavior
modification drugs. I would that we endeavor to lower boys suicide rate. I
would that we raise rates of boys going to college.

The mean spirited characterizations below do nothing constructive for the
problems of boys. In them, however, she has identified some issues which in
the interest of gender equity we should seek to correct. In particular, if
boys are doing less homework we ought to seek ways to correct this. We ought
to attempt to bring the boy's reading levels up to that of the girls.


> Teenage boys do an average of three hours work around the home every
> week. Their teenage sisters do an average of ten hours work around the
> home every week. Boys are completely free to increase their hours of
> work any time they want. Girls are not free to abdicate their chores.
> It is outrageous to say that boys are REQUIRED to take more than their
> share of the playground, hog the computors, rape girls, make more money
> than girls, have later curfew, do hugely less hours of housework than
> girls and use or condone violence to keep this grossly unequal system in
> place. Boys (and men) are FREE to give up these activities any time they
> want. But they don't want to because these activities give them so much
> reward and profit and power.
> Girls are not free to take back the playground and computors from boys
> who bully, they can't stop the nearly million rapes of girls every
> year, nor are they free to take their share of the money back, nor to
> stop the exploitation of their labor in the home, nor extend their
> curfew to equal the boys, nor stop the violence of boys.
> Flinders is also frustrated because there isn't much in the research on
> the raising of boys!!!!!!!
> Does Flinders choose to ignore the entire cannon of human history, of
> psychology, of pedagogy? All of which is based on the study of boys. And
> now in the smallest sliver of recent time we have a few dozen books on
> girls and Flinders and so many other "non traditional males"
> take their outsized share of free time in the world and their hugely
> outsized share of media access and they cry victim.
> INCREDIBLE!!!!!!!!!!
> Marie
> "marie De Santis" <>
> >
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