Nice, Rob, but you ignore my main point, and that is that people have a
fear of men and of large groups of men.
>Opponents of these programs state that they support equality,
>but their solutions ignore the real power distribution in this
>country and therefore end up supporting the discriminatory
>status quo.
If you think I will go after affirmative action because of the race, you
are deadly wrong (although it is foolhardy to assume that you can make
people color blind by making themselves aware of their race). I am against
_any_ public group catering to one group of people because of who they
are. That includes farmers, unions, veterans, and minorities.
The proponents of affirmative action would tell you that affirmative action
is a "temporary measure", that once we realize true equity in this society,
it will fade away. Folks, they used the same words about taxes, and so
forth. Affirmative action programs by the government (as opposed to
private businesses, which have every right to do so) will become a weed in
the government. Tell me the last time a bureaucracy voluntarily put itself
out of business?
>In order to reduce the privileged status held by white males
>in our society, the institutions which support that status,
>and which perpetutate all-male networks of decision makers,
>must be changed. Therefore, women's support groups are OK,
>exclusive men's clubs are not OK. Black student associations
>are OK, but White student associations are not OK, and White
>male student associations are doubly questionable. That is
>the way it should be until the balance of power and influence
>in our society shifts significantly toward true equality of
>opportunity.
And society will continue to see minorities and women incapable of doing
anything by themselves, plus, freedom of assembly has been suspended by a
government that claims to see no gender, no race, no national origin. But
tell me, Rob, what would happen to a Black male's group? Or a white female
group? And what will you say when the men of this society, of all races,
finally gets sick and tired with the labels that women put on them? You
have yet to really address my point, and that is with groups, private,
voluntary organizations of men.
What Robert said in his private message was that he was not against freedom
of assembly, he was just against those groups discriminating. Folks, I
would really like Robert to take one position or another. If you control
who gets into a group, you have effectively subverted its freedom of
assembly. Freedom of assembly not only means that you are free to
associate with certain people and groups, but you are also free _not_ to
associate with certain people and groups (if you don't believe me, think of
the "freedom from religion" arguement taken by such groups as People for
the American Way) who you do not like for any reason. By controlling who
gets in and who gets out, effectively freedom of association goes by the door.
Plus, when does affirmative action end? We've seen that women are not very
present in the House and Senate. Does that mean that we give women
"affirmative action votes" so as to increase their chance of getting into
the house (doubtless, under statists, only female Democrats would get such
votes)? Or do we let courts "gerrymander" districts so that minorities can
elect who they want to, while whites are effectively split up? Maybe
courts could effectively reverse elections if women lost and the courts
found that there was a "pattern of sexism" in the voting.
>My belief is that almost all EdEquity subscribers understand
>the above, and I apologize for repeating what for most of us
>is obvious, but I wanted to clarify my position (besides, I
>have been wanting to say it ever since we had all of those
>pro-male-rights messages several weeks ago).
>
> -- Bob Tighe (a white male)
Since when does your race matter? My final comment is that I hope that true
equity is achieved by the choices of each and every human being living in
the United States, not by a courts mandate or a bureaucrat's whim. My dream
is for an America in which no man or woman raises his or her hand againt
another. Something that we definitely will have to do if we are to ever
compete in the world market. Our foreign competitors won't even use or care
about affirmative acction; they'll just care about burying us by our own
tools.
John Meyer (libertarian)