Re: A place for the guys

Cynthia J. Mesh (
Fri, 22 May 1998 16:15:32 -0700

Thank you very much, Bob Tighe, for replying to John Meyer's post with such an
articulate and thoughtful response from the "male perspective." Hopefully, many
more men believe that they can see women as "complete beings" than believe that
they can only view women as sexual objects to conquer who must be fled in order
to have real comraderie with other men.

Cynthia Mesh, Ph.D.
Encinitas, CA

Robert Tighe wrote:

> John Meyer wrote:
> > It's not that I hate women; it's simply that I
> >want a break from them at times, where the primary thing on my mind is not
> >posing for a girl to get her into bed.
> Part of what has to be changed about men's attitudes is this idea
> that they can't be around women without their "primary" thoughts
> being about sex. If you can't do this, John, it means that you
> are incapable of treating a women as if she were a complete and
> complex person. Maybe there SHOULD be very few places where men
> like you can get together with other men and reinforce each
> other's stereotypical attitudes.
> >Yet there seem to be fewer and fewer places like that, where guys can hang
> >out alone and not be considered either a gang of rapists or simply pigs.
> >Fraternities are now under attack, and I think that some of the attacks are
> >being generated by those who are suspicious of any large group of guys,
> >whether white, black, or whatever. They think that somehow the men are
> >doing something that endangers girls or is generating money, and they think
> >that by placing girls there they can eliminate that danger.
> Maybe this is because all-male institutions have been strongly
> supportive of two tendencies which worked to the disadvantage
> of females:
> a. Reinforcement of the male attitudes which treated women
> primarily as sexual objects to be dominated, and which
> considered women as so different from males that there
> was no reason to include them in ordinary commerce.
> b. Building contacts which reinforced the "old boy's network"
> and effectively removed women from the knowledge and peer
> groups which controlled access to most careers.
> Fraternities and other all-male institutions have been effective in
> continuing male dominance of the economy and higher education. If
> sororities had anywhere near the social influence that fraternities
> have always had, there would be reason to disand them, too. Until
> then, incorporation of women into all-male institutions (i.e., the
> Citadel, Rotary, executive boardrooms) will be an important tool in
> reducing the attitudes which encourage men
> to discriminate against women, and hopefully will help to push
> men toward thinking of women as complete and capable humans.
> -- Bob

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